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October 22, 2007

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I left a comment on the other one...I just can't believe that there are people who sit and jump on something like this...like I said in my other comment, there are bigger things to worry about as a parent...I don't think spinach in sauce will be aired in the therapists office anytime soon...good parents are just that, good parents so why not support and keep your critical comments and judgements at bay. Anyone who thinks getting a picky eater to eat veggies just means doing this and this, doesn't obvously have one. I do and believe me it ain't no joke. Sort of tired of it being insinuated that it is something the parent's doing to make them picky...when the book came out, I thought what's the big deal anyway, it's not like Jessica discovered this, she just put down some ways she did it...she's not the inventor...like you said, only in America...Thank God I am Irish!!

Jessica Seinfeld said she still serves veggies as a side dish and sometimes they get eaten, sometimes they don't. She doesn't just serve the hidden ones.

Have had a couple of dishes form the book, which I bought for my daughter. Liked one, didn't like the other. I am still glad I bought the book. Now if I could just get my other daughter to try it. I am concerned...her kids are growing up on carbs. THey absolutely will not eat veggies! I may try sneaking some to them

How about this?

How about we just tell kids that everything is really made from spinach, even chicken nuggets. Then, if we sneak in real spinach, we're not really lying.

I sort of did a reverse-harm lie once...I gave my daughter extra spicy ginger-ale - which burned her nose and eyes - and told her it was Coca Cola. In 8 years, she's never since had a soda. She makes the horror-movie face when anyone even suggests a soda.

I'm going to hell.

I love the discussion going on here. It's similar to the one going on at my blog, but is a whole lot more passionate and funny :-)

Since I teach healthy cooking classes to kids, I get to see how well kids taste foods when they help in the kitchen. It's a great alternative for those parents (like me) who hate the idea of all the lying and sneaking.

This book, and it's "rival" The Sneaky Chef both have great recipes and lots of excellent nutrition information in them...but promote dishonesty, which I can't get over...

On my blog (http://whatscookingblog.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/is-deceptively-delicious-too-deceptive) I have been talking about where to draw the line between honesty and getting our kids to eat well.

Take a peek...and maybe you can make the conversation going on over there a little more spunky :-)

Love your take on it.
I am a bit taken aback by all the press, good and bad, swirling about.

I have the book and have tried some of the recipes. I'll be posting about them later. I do think it is funny that almost all of the posts about this book are written by people who have never seen it in person. ;)

My entry is here: http://mamaknj.blogspot.com/2007/10/lay-off-jessica-people.html

Personally, I would like a book that tells you how to sneak candy into vegetables. That, I would buy.

Oh...I see..it's the sneaky lying part.

Well, basically, the way I get around a pancake hiding kale is by simply telling my children that eating the pancake is an act of faith; that no one can really prove or disprove what is in the pancake or, truly, whether the pancake even exists. We just have faith in the pancake and struggle with our questions throughout our entire life and just try to be good people.

That usually shuts them up.

I haven't read all the comments, but all I have to say is that the meatloaf recipe in Sneaky Chef is the best meatloaf I've ever eaten.

It's a sin that I've gone so long without kale and wheatgerm in my meatloaf, and a sin that it has to be spoken of in hushed terms.

Anyway, what else can you do with kale but puree it and put it somewhere else? Oh sure, kale slaw. And in soup. But kale is a miracle food and should be eaten!

That said, I can't stand most fish and hide my Omega-3 hit in a tiny capsule that I take each day. Ditto all those nasty B-vitamins. Sure I could eat enough liver to get my biotin needs met each day, but barf...why? And why should my kids eat it?

As far as I can tell, people do all sorts of things to make their food taste better from grilling it to seasoning it. I don't get the bright line drawn at pureeing.

Great post, Kristen. I have to say it bothers me a little the way mainstream media has been eating this book up, without really questioning it the way you and other bloggers are here. Maybe it is also the fact that she is who she is (there's been a lot of the Seinfelds on TV lately btwn this and Bee Movie), but I don't know them personally so who I am to say anything about them? I could make assumptions all day if I really wanted to! Anyway, here's my contribution to the mix (some helpful tips & recipes from Ellie Krieger on the Food Network, who I learned my first squash/mac n cheese recipe from (before the Sneaky Chef or DD)): http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=3747982&FullBreadCrumb=%3Ca+href%3D%22%2Fbrowse%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fquery%3Dcolorful%26c1%3DCONTENT30%26c17%3D0%26c2%3Dfalse%22%3EAll+Results+%3C%2Fa%3E.

As a mother of grown kids, I think many parents are far too obsessed with what their kids eat. If it becomes a power thing, then when they feel powerless they'll eat to regain the illusion of control. (now HOW would I know that????)

Of course kids should eat well but they aren't going to evaporate from llittle-kid eating preferences. My younger son hated green stuff so much he picked the scallions out of the stuffing for fried dumplings in Chinese restaurants and now he's a totally healthy eating adult.

I did NOTHING about what they ate except by shopping. They still laugh about the organic, lard-free peanut butter and Branola bread. Oh and grated apples and carrots into oatmeal cookies instead of sugar.

I guess what I'm saying is that whatever goes into our kid's food is -- food. They can figure out the details later. I never lied to my kids either. But giving them pasta sauce with broccoli in it is just giving them pasta sauce with broccoli in it. If you just tell them it's pasta sauce you avoid the whole issue. Details are often too much info for younger folk anyway -- even the brilliant Ms. Q!

Aw shucks, no one has ever called troll before. :) Thanks for being so gracious.

Maybe we should have paired up for the November Blog Exchange and debated "To Puree or Not To Puree"

Editor's note: It's not a bad idea... Anyone willing to take on Cori?

Cori -

You're the nicest troll I ever had.

LOL.

But seriously, I hear your objections. As well as Guilty Secrets -- but just having a rule that you "HAVE" to eat your veggies, that's sort of hard to enforce, no?

Kristen,

My comment was snarky and I apologize, mea culpa. I don't like the way the book is marketed and it bugs me can ya tell? I should not have ranted on your blog, I have since ranted on my own.

Who knew there would be such a fuss? I think you're right. I think people are pissed that Jessica (the famous wife) wrote a book. I have had a similar reaction when I have told people about the book (because I do think it's a great cookbook) and they say things that have nothing to do with food like, "Oh, I bet it was easy for her to land that book deal" or "she doesn't have enough money?" We all know that jealously brings the claws out. I just would have never guessed that people would attack her like that. What's the point?
Can't it just be about the fact that we are all trying to do our best to raise our children healthy and happy? Sheesh. Such drama.

Bossy's daughter is on the witness stand and she says she saw Oprah too, and Dr. Oz said it only takes *ten times* for a kid to try something before they can renounce that food for-ev-ah. Ten times. Not fifteen. Good going, Bossy's daughter. Danger, like, averted.

Hmmmm... when I was a child, you ate your vegetables because that was the rule. Surely it's easier to do that than puree everything?

My kids currently have a limited range of what they are willing to eat. Meatloaf, chicken nuggets, fresh pasta & PB sandwiches are pretty much the only things I can count on. Usually pizza as well. No veggies at all and only apples & grapes for fruit. So I put roasted eggplant in the meatloaf, broccoil in the nugget batter, carrots in the tomato sauce and spinich in the pizza crust & in the pesto sauce. I also add various purees to ranch dressing, honey mustard & ketchup. And I serve it with a salad and a side of zucchini or beets or peas & corn. They are getting some nutrition into them. I''m not sneaking anything. They can smell broccoli steaming from across the house & DS2 will come asking "What's that smell?" and I'll tell him its broccoli for dinner. He says he won't eat it. I say fine and serve him the nuggets later & he eats them.
I have food texture issues & I was a picky eater. I understand my kids attitudes. I don't particularly like broccoli & spinach on their own either-especially if they are covered in some cheese or cream sauce. Just the thought of the smell of steame caulflower in a cheese sauce makes me qeasy. But raw cauliflower is ok.
Oh and sometimes it takes more than 15 offerings. My kids have been offered carrots, broccoli, corn, peas and spinach in a multitude of ways several times a month each, since they were a year old. That means my 5 year old has been offered them about 240 times each and still refuses to eat them

Okay so maybe this won't be the most popular comment but ... Only in America do parents have to bend over backwards, stand upside down on their heads and puree food to get their children to do what they want. I'm no expert on worldly food cultures but is everyone in the world having a hard time getting their children to eat? So what's next? What are you prepared to do to get your children to go to bed, do their homework, not sneak out the window, not do drugs etc? What's the next bandwagon you are prepared to jump on and how much money is it going to cost to buy the book and all the equipment required to practice the next big thing?

Why does this generation feel like they have to cater to their children and will do anything to get their children to comply? With every new book there is a rush to buy it because it's the next best thing. We are so overly concerned with stuff and rushed and worried about every thing. Anyway that's my rant, have fun with your food processor. Good luck with it and post an update I'd would really like to know if you are still making puree one year from now.

Editor's Note: I don't puree. And probably never will. In this particular case, I don't think it's so much about complying. It's more about getting kids to eat veggies. It might not be the way to do it for everyone, but my point is that for some people, it's a viable option.

But to basically call parents "wimps" because they can't get their kids to eat their veggies is a bit far fetched. When you've got a doctor breathing down your neck to get your kid to eat more veggies, you'll do what you can to make it happen.

I got this book the day that I saw her interview on Oprah. The recipes looked like they were delicious and easy. I have been VERY impressed with the recipes. My husband and I don't eat many veggies, but we like the way that they enhance the taste of the recipes.

My daughter is two years old and she eats veggies fairly well. My husband and I don't. We are using this book mainly for our benefit. I don't feel bad about "sneaking" veggies into her food. I have eaten food all of my life when I don't know all of the ingredients.

Her ideas or not, I think the recipes are good. I have tried several of them and I will try more. You can't beat a good chicken nugget, broccoli or not.

My 3 yo will eat most anything - my 6 yo, not so much. But what makes most any food more appealing to both of them is the accompaniment: DIPPING SAUCE! If they can dip it (ranch dressing is a fave, but honey mustard, bleu cheese, peanut butter will work too), they'll usually eat it, if only as a vehicle for that tasty sauce!

I hate to toot my own horn (oh, ok, no I don't) but I'm writing a column on healthy eating every Wednesday over at GNMParents. And it's really going well! Take a peek. I focus a little more on older kids because that's what I have, but everything is adaptable.

Eat Up!

http://www.gnmparents.com/from-fruit-loops-to-flax-seeds-i-heart-easy-breezy-breakfasts/

Gosh, if cooking with pureed veggies is lying to our children, then we should be providing them with a full list of ALL ingredients that go into every.single.meal!

I must be the only mom who rarely lies to my kids. That leads to interesting situations like my 3 year old announcing to some old lady that "Santa is DEAD." My explanation about St. Nicholas being a bishop who lived a long time ago got distilled down a bit. Re: veggies: the kids eat them without any trickery. Butter, garlic and/or cheese sauce does wonders.

We lie to our kids all the time: Santa, Tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, your face will get stuck like that. Can we please STOP telling parents how to do their jobs and let them do it. If my daughter is eating well-balanced meals does it matter if it because i stuck peas in the shafts of the penne? Goodness gracious- people need to get a life!

As an EXTREMELY picky eater myself, I sympathize with kids. I'm a supertaster, meaning I have a gazillion more tastebuds than the average bear, so stuff tastes much more potent. And sometimes kids are like that too. It's some sort of evolutionary protection against poison or something. I forget.

Letting kids know it's OK not to like something helps take the pressure off. And pressure is what makes mealtime a living hell for kids. No matter how many times you introduce some foods to kids, sometimes they JUST DON'T LIKE THEM. It happens.

Also forgoing the "good foods" and "bad foods" thing is a good idea too. But I'm a big fan of telling kids that "this will make you FART really LOUD". They'll be much more likely to try it.

Also teaching kids about gardening helps. They're more likely to eat something they or you grow. And getting them involved in shopping helps. We pick a new veggie every week to try. Or even if they sit on the counter and watch you chop, it gets them interested. But otherwise, they may just be kids who like a small variety of stuff. There's no contest for parents whose kids eat the most veggies!

I just ordered this book today and can't wait to get it! I'm not even going to tell my husband that there are vegetables sneaking into his food. He is SUCH a veggiephobic!

If you have a child that is a picky eater you are pretty much willing to try anything. Bribe them with a new car when they turn 16 if they eat all of the carrots. Finish up that fish and you get an IPOD. Hide spinach in the pizza, smoother the brocoli with cheese. Whatever works. I think this book is a great idea and plan on using some of the tricks to my advantage.

I'll agree that the pureeing is time-consuming. I sure as hell wouldn't have tried it when I was working full-time outside the house with a long commute and day care drop-off/pick-up tacked onto both ends of my day. Weekends were for relaxing, not pureeing.

That said, it was the other book that helped us start eating fish at home instead of just at McD's.

Whatever works, right?

No Ass Kicking here!

But I wonder if people who are critical of this book and give their kids the occasional fast food tell them what's in that.

Hmmm........

And I'm with you TB -- if the recipes do suck, that's one thing!!

Some people need a life. I see no problem with adding veggies into the food. It is not like they even know or care what the ingredients are in what they are eating.

I quite agree with you on the ridiculosity of anyone criticizing a mom for lying to her kids with food. Heck, moms just lie. Deal with it. I post on this very issue of mommylying today over at Cookiemag if anyone's interested -- I lie all the time these days. Can't help it. And as for lying about what's in a meal? That hardly seems something to get one's knickers in a knot over.

Mainly my beef with Jessica Seinfeld is that she has a kid named Shepherd.

On another note, not to push YOU in any direction that does not appeal or seems judgmental, but just FYI the NY Times recently wrote a piece on how picky eating is genetically motivated...and that kids' suspicion of new foods is a natural biological imperative. whodathunkit.

I've seen a lot of hating on Mrs. Seinfeld. So what if the idea isn't original.
And if the recipes taste good and my kid didn't eat veggies, I would definitely sneak them into his meals.
I've been slightly annoyed that some of the reviews I've seen of this book have been by folks who didn't even try to make any of the food.

I don't even know what wheat germ is. I know I fed it to my baby and I think it has something to do with wheat (I am so astute) but what is it really?

My own Spud is a total freak and I still don't know what I did in my past live(s?) to deserve this but she eats VERY well so I've had very few battles. The battles we DO have are more along the lines of "No more steamed asparagus until you eat your fries, young lady" and "no, sorry honey, it's not squid, it's an onion ring." I shit you not.

We've never had McDonalds (because it freaks me out a little) but we DO do fast food when necessary, so I'm hardly a righteous nutrition freak. I use Nutella as a tool to get her to eat the crusts after she's finished the toast middles, just like any good briber.

I guess we've just offered the variety and never let on that anything is weird (she asked to go for sushi for her third birthday, she loves the roe) and she responded well. (She had food allergies/sensitivities when tiny, too, I had very few options when nursing but she's outgrown them all, thank the gods.)

Feel free to kick my ass. I am fully expecting the second one (due soon) to be a sack of pickyness waiting to happen so I may get my comeuppance, yet.

After my 4-year-old daughter cut off all her hair and after she regretted doing so, I told her that eating the vegetables I placed before her would help the hair grow out faster.

Lying? No.

Manipulative? Hell, yeah.

And you know that letting your kids believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny and Toothfairy is lying, too. So start treating them like little adults from the time they exit the womb.

Whatever!

I once refused a bowl of ice cream because I was SURE my mother had put zucchini into it. It was (green) mint chip.

Yeah. I agree. And I do occasionally fib to The Poo. Some stuff she just doesn't need to know.

But most of the time, we're honest with her, if we feel she can comprehend it.

As for eating, my kid eats nothing but carbs. Even the only fruit she eats is the worst kind for you - the banana.

But I keep trying. I keep giving her apples and eating veggies in front of her. And you know what? Today she LICKED AN APPLE.

That was so freaking huge for her.

So it does work. But hey, if I can get her to eat cauliflower in that mac n' cheese, I'll do it. Both methods work.

My mom regularly sneaked crap (err 'healthy' crap...like protein powder) into our food and to this day if she cooks something my sister and I sniff suspiciously at it. But I think my mom is the traumatized one. And we weren't even picky eaters! We ate healthy!

My kids aren't picky, well according to my standards...they do have Strong Preferences For and Against, which vary wildly.

I don't like the idea because I don't like the sneaking part due to how I felt about it as a kid. But that's me, and my kids aren't picky so what do I know.

But it's really just because I don't like cooking, and especially cooking specially for kids. So we eat what we eat. Basically. Because it's all about me, really. ;)

The book just wasn't a fit for me, nd I sort of agree with Stefania.

But that doesn't mean I'd judge someone who liked it. Again, what do I know...other than geez, moms, do what you must to make it through with hair left on your head. That's the bottom line, eh.

Julie
Using My Words
http://theartfulflower.blogspot.com

Actually, that's how we get Q to eat her veggies.

We tell her Santa won't come down our non existent chimney and bring her toys.

heh.

I'm with Eryn ! As a matter of fact, I fully intend to sneak some Mixed veggies Stage 1 baby food into BooRat's mac/chee tonite - and like Eryn, if I need to, I WILL lie my ass off !!!!

I suppose all those against 'deceiving their children' with that rascal broccoli, also decide to sign all the Christmas presents 'love mom and dad because there is no Santa, you know.'

What. ever.

Stealing other people's stuff sucks, though. That's not nice.

Actually, several Parent Bloggers and Mother-Talkers have offered negative reviews of the book. That's where I originally got the idea to post it -- but then those powerhousers that were mentioned snatched it :)

Moreso has been the controversy over possible plagiarism than the actual concepts in the book itself.

I do think it's fair to say that if people are going to offer criticism of a book and the concepts offer within, that people should read the book. I suppose you can get a gist of it from the the reviews that are circulating -- but Strollerderby bashed the concept and had not even read the book.

And I liken this (somewhat) to when Lindsay (Suburban Turmoil) wrote about how SAHMing was easy.

It is to her in her situation.

I think the same goes for this. If you haven't had a picky eater, then it's hard to say that this isn't a feasible option for someone.

LOL! I thought all 3 year olds know what Wheat germ is? Don't they? Okay just kidding!

Is there hullabaloo or just three very loud bloggers jumping up and down :-)? Cuz I was hard-pressed to find anyone saying anything negative about the book. I thought I was going to be alone in my opinions until I read some of the comments on my blog.

I think I qualified my position pretty clearly in my post: I haven't read the book (don't have to, not a journalist) and that I am sharing my opinion based on what I've read/seen. I also said I have no experience with raising picky eaters but I'm sharing what works for me.

Her approach simply doesn't jibe with the way I want to teach my kids about food and cooking (and eating). As parents, I think we do need lots of tools in our arsenal when it comes to feeding kids. This book could be it for some and that's great. I chose to avoid the sneaky cook route and stock my shelves with books like Salad People by Mollie Katzen or Kids Cook 1-2-3 by Gold--books where even little kids are encouraged to "get their hands dirty" and cook something yummy!

I think the value is in having discourse like this where everyone gets to share their (sometimes vehement) opinions, and then we take away from the discussions things that we hope will work on our kids.

Seriously, there's a controversy over a book that gets healthy food into kids bodies? Seriously? Don't people have anything better to bitch about? I have to go read up on this I guess.
I, personally read this book and loved it. I have a kid who refused to eat anything that was not white for YEARS. If I can add broccoli to her chicken nuggets and have her actually eat it, without a fight, without her screaming at me, I will do it, and I will lie my ass off.

Agreed Jennifer. I'm actually not for the puree because to me it's way too much work. But I put veggies in however/whenever I can.

I'm a good chopper.

I routinely give my kids all kinds of veggies, and I also chop (finely dice, or whatever) extra veggies and throw them into meat sauce, soups, stews, casseroles. My kids know they are getting veggies but I don't put out an FDA approved label on everything I serve -- that's just silly. We're the parents and we should each do what we know works with our individual kids.

CM --

Nice pun :)

And true that...

Ya, there is quite a raging debate about the 'ethics' of all of her book.

strange world. Its a cookbook. I dunno, I think there might be bigger fish to fry.

I'm fairly lucky in the regard that my kids generally like veggies. Broccoli, celery, grape tomatoes, cucumbers, raw spinach. I realize this is an anomaly and that, for the time being at least, we have it pretty good as far as food.

I'm all for people trying to get nutritious foods into their kids. But, as with everything, it's time and energy that some of us just don't have. If I can find someone to watch my kids for free whilst their mummy spends some time pureeing, cool! Otherwise, it ain't happening.

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